What About Vietnam – S5-E16 -Smart phone Apps and Tech Tips for travellers to Vietnam

No one travels these days without their phone. So, it makes sense to invest in some extra smartphone skills that can significantly enhance your travel experience if Vietnam.
In this show we arm you with some of the best Tech Tips and Apps to enhance your experience of Vietnam, including : staying in touch with family and friends back home; Not getting caught out with home country phone fees; saving money on tour costs: feeling confident about exploring outer regions, and finding a buddy may be a great way to enhance your stay.

In this podcast episode, I am joined by Michelle Chang from Intentional Travellers, a business offering tutorials in Smart phone upskilling for travel to countries all around the world. Through Michelle’s worldwide travel experiences she is able to explain the benefits of having these skills and how they can help travellers answer unexpected questions, deal with challenges, and navigate unfamiliar places more effectively. 

Michelle highlights the significance of using essential apps such as Google Maps, Google Translate, WhatsApp, and ride-sharing apps like Grab. Additionally, we cover;-

* Currency conversions Apps 
*Phone battery management 
*Making the best use of Google Maps
*Data management 
*The GRAB advantages
*Working remotely in Vietnam
*Online booking tools and Apps to get the best offers
*Using your phone to manage communication with tour operators

Moreover, the conversation on remote work in Vietnam highlights the robust internet connectivity and the extensive use of technology for business. Michelle notes the widespread availability of free Wi-Fi in cafes and co-working spaces. emphasizing the increasing appeal of digital nomadism. By utilizing smartphone modern technology, travelers can effortlessly integrate work with leisure, maintaining productivity while discovering new destinations.

Find out more about Michelle’s tutorials and online programs you can connect directly with her here - https://intentionaltravelers.com/

For a great experience with a buddy to help you enjoy local areas, business situations, translations and possibly medical appointments, why not book a Travel Buddy through https://www.tubudd.com/ Use the Promo code KERRYVN5 on the  TUBUDD App to receive 5% discount.

The best way to connect with me is not via text, it is through the website www.whataboutvietnam.com website and email.

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Transcript

Kerry Newsome: Xin chào and welcome to the What About Vietnam podcast. Today we're going to be getting you smartphone ready for Vietnam. We're going to be talking about some ways to use some apps to make your trip more enjoyable, maybe a little bit more hassle free, if that's a better term. We're also going to be giving you some tips on the most common ones used in Vietnam. And I'm going to be doing that with a very regular traveler. to Vietnam who operates a remote business called Intentional Travelers. And she has a lot to help us with just ways that we can get a little bit more smartphone savvy in Vietnam. And I know because I work remotely, it's really handy to get on top of these things and get prepared for Vietnam and a few of its nuances. So, let's introduce Michelle Chang to the program. Hello, Michelle.

Michelle Chang: Thanks, Kerry. It's a pleasure to be here.

Kerry Newsome: Now, Michelle, I'm really keen to talk to you today about this subject as I think, you know, I think travelers do need some level of digital and phone literacy in today's travel environment. So I'm really keen to kind of explore some of the things probably both of us have used. But, you know, I know my travelers need to have this under their belt to make their trip just that much more enjoyable. So maybe tell us, Michelle, how did you find yourself in Vietnam?

Michelle Chang: Sure. Well, it was actually not on the top of my list. However, we had some really good friends who moved to Vietnam for work. They were working with a non-profit for five years in Hanoi, and we couldn't pass up the opportunity to visit them while they were there and experience the country with their help. And, honestly, I'm not sure if I would have gone because Vietnam did just feel intimidating and very foreign, you know, not knowing the language. But they were able to, you know, show us around, teach us how to cross the street in Hanoi, which is a big deal. And all of those kind of things. And so we stayed with them for two weeks the first year. We actually loved it. We went back again the next year and stayed with them two more weeks. And from there, we felt a little bit more comfortable and decided to venture on our own. And I had seen great things about Hoi An. I believe this was 2016. So we ventured down that way into central Vietnam for the first time, stayed with a homestay, and just fell in love with that family. They were really into cross-cultural exchange. They took us to, you know, their ancient uh, sites that were nearby to their family home and family lunches and drove us around on their motorbikes. And so that was really special. So because of all those connections, we ended up going back again and again. And each time we went back, we actually stayed longer and longer until this past year, we stayed for the full three months that our visa would allow. So that's how we ended up in Vietnam.

Kerry Newsome: Wow. It actually mirrors a lot how I, I guess, developed my more in-depth relationship with Vietnam. Certainly from 2016, I found myself in a similar situation. Just the more I saw, the more I got to know the Vietnamese, the more I explored the country, it just It just took me over. I just fell in love with it. So, I totally get where you're coming from on that sphere. Let's talk about some of the common mistakes that you've seen travelers make with their phones and just data abroad so we can kick off this subject and get a bit deeper into it.

Michelle Chang: Sure. Well, I would say even just a few years ago, it was easier to travel without using your phone too much. But not just in Vietnam, but around the world, it's becoming increasingly more important because airlines are switching to digital tickets. And sometimes you need to get confirmations digitally. So if you're not connected by your phone, that can really get you into trouble. But some of the common mistakes People are used to using their phone every day at home, which is great, but a lot of times that's not enough and there's some new practices, habits, new settings that you might need to try. So for example, I've seen a lot of people that visit us when we're in Vietnam who lose charge on their phone very easily because they're not used to using their phone almost all day every day, whether it's, you know, they're using a map or the translate, taking pictures, and they're out, you know, from their hotel, they're out and about, so they're not near a charger. So that's one thing is just every night, make sure that you're charging it all the way up. And if you can get one of those portable battery chargers to carry with you. So if you do run out of battery, you can charge your phone on the go. Another big mistake, I would say, at least for Americans, I'm not sure what it's like in Australia, but the home phone carriers that we have They offer international plans, which are convenient, but they're often not a great deal compared to the other options that are out there for getting international phone data. And if you don't have an international plan, some of us have made mistakes and learned the hard way, you make a two minute phone call outside your country and it ends up being like a shockingly high bill. Absolutely. So the good news is that there are other options, and we have tested a lot of them, but more recently we end up using eSIMs quite frequently just because of the ease of setting it up. It's still very cost effective, but which option is right for you depends on your phone, your data needs, if your phone is unlocked, and those kind of things. The other thing I have found is a lot of people don't know how much data they actually need when they're purchasing these international plants. They end up overpaying or just overusing data that they don't need to. We met a family when we were in Halong Bay, and it was really neat. This young family was traveling the world and doing their schooling for a year from abroad with two kind of preteen kids. And they were each using at least a gig of data a day. And compared to what Jed and I use, it's really only less than three gigs for a whole month, because we know how to manage our data and when to use Wi-Fi and what apps to use on Wi-Fi and what we prioritize our data on. So that can really make a big difference cost-wise, if you're not familiar with how those things work. I would say just in general, not using the phone as a tool to its full potential. We'll talk about some of the apps that have been really helpful.

Kerry Newsome: I agree totally with you. I think that using your phone in Vietnam for some of the most basic things is definitely on the rise. And as you were moving about the country, being able to access your email even on your phone, which does require special setup. Because depending on how you've made your bookings prior to arrival, you may be receiving emails or email notifications to advise you of some changes to those. And that could be anything from your hotel, to your airline, to the tour that you've purchased. It can be all sorts of things. It's crazy just how often you're going to use your phone. And for some people, they're not going to bring their full laptop with them, depending on their length of stay, or they don't have portability devices like that to access. Lots to share in this area. And the more I'm listening to you, I'm going, gosh, you know, battery, having a portable battery, being able to increase the frequency that you can use your phone is so important and the eSIM definitely. I want to just talk about that eSIM and the area of data roaming and switching on and off, because as you said, you can get very quickly caught or trapped into thinking that, oh, I've got the eSIM, and very quickly you're then eating up your data. And that can be fixed very simply by turning the roaming off when you get into a Wi-Fi setup like in your hotel, which is offered to you free. Can you talk to us a little bit more about switching between those two and how we can better manage that?

Michelle Chang: Sure. I think the first thing to understand is what does use up a lot of data. And that's mostly things that are having to go back and forth from the internet to get lots and lots of information. So if you think of a single word is just a tiny bit of information, a paragraph is more information, a picture is a thousand words, right? And a video is a thousand pictures. And so that's kind of how data stacks up. So if you think about, you know, if somebody sends you an image on WhatsApp or another messaging service and you are out and about, if you want to view that image through the message, it's probably going to use data unless you have settings that you've changed in your phone that specifically say, don't use this app when I'm on data, only use this app when I'm on Wi-Fi. So you want to be cognizant of when you are downloading or uploading images and especially video. So you don't want to be streaming YouTube unless you have an unlimited data plan or you don't care how much money you're spending on it. So those are some things, you know, video calls also are going to take up a lot of data.

Kerry Newsome: Correct. And even in your search, when you're searching Google for something or you're searching Google Maps and then, you know, it's finding you that cafe that you want to go to, but then you're clicking on that image, kind of can go in a rollercoaster way very quickly to chew up that data. Am I right?

Michelle Chang: Yes, it can. I have found Google Maps is not quite as fast at chewing up data as I expected. But the other trick is to make sure that you're downloading offline data for the maps and for any other apps that you might be using while you're out and about. Because that way, the data, the information is already living on your phone. And it's not having to grab so much from the internet. So that does save you on your data usage as well, is making sure that you have some offline downloads where appropriate.

Kerry Newsome: Got it. All right. So this is probably a good segue into talking about what you recommend as kind of the most essential apps to use.

Michelle Chang: So one thing that I like to teach travelers going abroad is to get familiar with just four of the most essential smartphone apps. And they apply to Vietnam especially. So the four I talk about are Google Maps, which we've mentioned, Google Translate, WhatsApp for messaging, and whatever ride share or ride hailing app is common in the region, which in Vietnam we know is Grab, G-R-A-B. And I think if you don't do anything else on your smartphone, if maybe you are kind of overwhelmed by technology and that kind of makes you ignore things, these are the four that I don't think that you should ignore. The more familiar you get with these they will make a bigger difference in being able to travel confidently and solve the problems that come up. They make communication easier and all of that helps with your safety and security when you're not familiar with the place. So the other thing I use is a free currency conversion app all the time when we're in Vietnam because as we know all those zeros can be very confusing to convert in your head. So I can talk a little bit more about Google Maps. Obviously, it's helpful for navigating, but I actually use it just as much for my trip planning and research, finding those hidden gems. So I really use it constantly. And I actually had an older friend, a retiree, who was visiting while we were in Vietnam, and she asked me about it. She's like, it looks like you have this whole system for saving points on your map. I've never done that. And that's kind of what led me to realize it could be helpful to teach some of these different tricks and tools that I've learned over the years. So anyways, unlike TripAdvisor, which has reviews purely from tourists, I really like the reviews on Google Maps because it's more likely to include locals. and it translates their comments into English automatically. So that's helpful. Google Translate, for anyone who's not familiar, this app can translate signs and menus in real time, as well as the audio of live conversations. So for example, we often rent a motorbike when we're in Hoi An, and once we pulled into a parking lot and there was a sign in Vietnamese right above the parking spot, and we're kind of like, hmm, the last thing we want is to get a parking ticket or something, or just be culturally inappropriate. So we pull out the Google 

Translate app, and we've downloaded Vietnamese offline, so it's not using data. And we can just point our camera of the phone at the sign, and it immediately switches the letters from Vietnamese to English words, and now we know what it says, which ended up not being an issue anyways. We also use it to show people at restaurants because we're not very good with spicy food. So we have on our Google Translate, you know, not spicy, please. Because even though we have learned how to say it in Vietnamese, our pronunciation isn't always understood. So we want to be able to communicate clearly. And we use it a lot to communicate at the market, or even with our Vietnamese friends who speak English, but sometimes they don't know certain vocabulary. So it really helps connect with people. And even though we're using a screen, you wouldn't think technology It might be getting in the way, but it really has been helpful to us. We even had a homestay host, a couple, when we stayed in Ninh Binh. And they were super enthusiastic users of Google Translate. I've actually never seen anyone use it. quite as fiercely, so they used the audio capture side of it and would have whole conversations with us as soon as we arrived. They would speak into it in Vietnamese, say, my name is such and such, what's your name, where are you from, and they would hold it up to us so we could hear the translation and see the translation on their phone. they would point to us to speak back into the phone, which we did in English, and it translated back to Vietnamese, and we could just have a little conversation that way. So pretty special, yeah.

Kerry Newsome: And I've used that quite a lot when I am hiring a driver, as the driver will have like about, you know, five or six words that, you know, he has learned parrot fashion in English. But to go anything beyond that, he struggles. And so, you know, there's no way I want to make him feel uncomfortable or, you know, I'm struggling with my Vietnamese. I use the the Google Translate app. And, you know, you can just see their faces beam as in, oh, great, you know, we can converse using this tech tool. And they become more relaxed. And, you know, when you've got a journey, maybe four or five hours in a car, and you've got to stop, you know, for a toilet break, or, you know, you, you know, you need to buy some water, or you've got a lunch, or, or something like that, that you want to, to get maybe a banh mi on the side of the road that you've seen, or, that you want them to stop for. Using Google Translate can be really handy in that situation. I mean, that's obviously more in the remote areas. I think you'll find English is, you know, well-spoken certainly in the tourist hubs and the major cities pretty well, like you can get away with it. But in the outer regions, it's really helpful.

Michelle Chang: The other app, so WhatsApp, is a messaging app that I have found is really widely used across the world and including in Vietnam. So if you're not using that, it allows you to send messages, including pictures and videos. You can also do voice calls and video calls. but it uses wi-fi so if you are on a free wi-fi network then your use of it is totally free you don't have to have an international phone number it's going to use your home phone number and that has been really helpful because individuals use it but also businesses so if you are meeting up with a tour guide or trying to see if a restaurant is going to be open, those kinds of things. A lot of times you'll be connecting with them through WhatsApp.

Kerry Newsome: I think WhatsApp is your best workaround if you don't want to do the eSIM or you don't want to have to use any of your data or whatever you've bought. If you want to minimize it, I would definitely urge you to use WhatsApp. for your messages, phone calls, all of that, because it is prolific in Vietnam, very well accepted, and even if you need to ring home, you know, if you make sure everybody's on WhatsApp at home that you want to call, It's so easy and it's free if you're on Wi-Fi. In fact, I tell people the only way I'm going to call you is through WhatsApp because I don't want to buy big data and spend too much money on an eSIM. It requires mobile data. So, I use WhatsApp a lot.

Michelle Chang: So the last one is rideshare, which in Vietnam, the most common tends to be Grab. It's used throughout a lot of Southeast Asia. So you definitely want to set that up before you get in the country. Make sure that you have your payment method, I guess the word is, payment method set up. You don't want to show up in the airport.

Kerry Newsome: On the payment method, What do you advise? Because I have my thoughts on that. I'm just keen to hear what yours are on setting up the payment method in Grab.

Michelle Chang: Yes, that's a good question. I've heard good reasons for cash, which is that the drivers usually prefer cash. I tend to do the credit card and I'll tell you why. There have been quite a few scams, especially for new visitors who arrive in Vietnam and are not familiar with all those zeros in the currency. The drivers will sometimes say, you gave me $5,000, when actually you gave them $50,000, unfortunately. So that happened to some friends of ours who were just arriving in Hanoi. So it does help with that. Also, you know, you don't have to make change, you know exactly what your fare is going to be. If you as long as you have a credit card that is not going to have international fees. That's what we use. And

Kerry Newsome: That's your go-to?

Michelle Chang: Yeah. Tell me your, your, yeah, your take on it.

Kerry Newsome: My take on it after many, many years using Grab is to use the cash option. And the reason I do that is because I'm fairly familiar with the fact that cash is king in Vietnam. It does mean that I can tip. the driver, he can see the tip and he can use the tip straight away. So, if the ride is, you know, 50,000 or 100,000 or if it's 85, I might just kind of round it up. And I don't know whether there is a network. Like, I've had this conversation with many people, but I always get a grab really quickly. Like, most people will be saying, oh, it might take 10 to 15 minutes to get a grab. I jump on the app, and obviously, you know, I've been using it a long time. I ask for a drive at the same place, and I'll get a grab in like two seconds flat. Like, they'll be there in quick, smart time. So, I don't know whether there's this little network where they say, oh, if Kerry Newsome comes on and she books it, she's obviously now in Hanoi or Saigon or wherever she is, she pays cash and she slightly tips. So, I don't know. I've got no way I can confirm that, but I feel that for the slight inconvenience that it causes me to make sure I've got the right change. So I always make sure when I book that car or bike, that I actually have as close as possible to the right amount of money, because you're right. Scams can happen when the persons will say, oh, you know, they don't have change. They can't speak a lot of English, a lot of the drivers anyway, as we've previously discussed. So you then have to be, you know, doing this wrangle with Google Translate. So, you know, being a little bit smart, thinking ahead and keeping some change ready to have the right money is the key if you choose the cash option. A lot of people use the credit card, as you say, or travel money card, whatever that works very efficiently. I've just preferred over time to use the cash option. So from both senses, you can decide which you think suits you best. Okay. Uh, on the, on the grab, uh, option two, I think, um, Grab is great for just not only rideshare and bike or car, but it's also good for food. So if you were in a situation where, you know, maybe someone is sick or, you know, someone in your party or your group and you're staying at a homestay or maybe it's bucketing down rain and you don't want to go out or whatever, it does have the option for food. delivery as well. So, it's really well set up. The app is very easy to use. So, as Michelle has said, I strongly urge you to set it up on your phone, have it the way you want it when you arrive. And I think you can feel very confident in using it for, you know, car or or bike. And sometimes the bike option is actually quicker to get you to a particular location because of traffic and all sorts. So if you feel confident with that, they're going to have a helmet for you to get on the bike, to feel safe. They know the roads, you know, very well. You can match your name on their app, on their phone to you. So you know the driver, is for you, you know the vehicle is the one, and you know they have the address that you have put in. So, you know, like Uber in my country and in some other countries around the world, it's a very similar match. Yeah, all power to grab. There are other ones now in Vietnam that a lot of the Vietnamese locals use. I haven't got as much experience with those, but I've been told maybe there's one called B or something like that. But I think for the purpose of us giving you one that we know and trust, grab would be the way to go.

Michelle Chang: Yes, definitely. There's the electric vehicles now too that just this year, I believe, have really spread around. I haven't had the chance to use that, but I do like that it's electric vehicles.

Kerry Newsome: Yes, definitely. Let's talk, Michelle, about on apps, but maybe expand it a bit more into social media in Vietnam, and maybe a little bit about Facebook. What's your experience with Facebook in Vietnam? I personally think Vietnam has been built on Facebook, but For other countries, it's kind of dying off. What's your experience been with Facebook and using it as you've been getting about Vietnam?

Michelle Chang: That's a good question. We do have a few of our Vietnamese friends who are on Facebook a little bit. We also find quite a few of the businesses that, instead of setting up their own website, are using the Facebook page. So that tends to be a good place to go and check, you know, have they updated their page recently or has it been you know, since before the pandemic that they posted and maybe they're not actually open anymore. Or you can message them through Facebook a lot of times if you have a question. So, yeah, that can be a good resource as well.

Kerry Newsome: I find Facebook truly the most effective way to reach out or to find or get more information that's up to date of businesses. Not so much people, occasionally people, but more so businesses because the business will put up their opening times. They'll put up any changes in their menu. Sometimes if they're a particular bar, they will put up events that are on. So, if there's, you know, a band playing or, you know, they've got some kind of special festival activity or anything like that. I'll tell you a funny story. I wanted to get a massage one time in Hoi An and it was during Tet. So, you know, during Tet, a lot of businesses during the actual Tet national holiday period, you know, it's a little bit hit and miss on who's open, who's not, as a lot of places operate with skeleton staff. Yeah. So, I wanted this massage and I thought, oh, there's no chance I'm going to get it because, you know, no one will be around doing that. Sure enough, I go to this Facebook page and I'll give a plug for Citrus. which is a lovely massage spa place in Hoi An. And this citrus spa, so I send them a message, they say they're open. And I reach out to the person, she comes back to me in English very quickly to say, yes, she's open and she can fit me in. So then my next problem is, who's gonna be around on Grab? to get me there because, you know, obviously a lot of the drivers are not working because they're with families and things like that. So, I'm thinking, oh, damn, you know, I can get the appointment, but how am I going to get there? So, then I say to the girl, I'm not sure how I can get there. The next thing she comes back and says, that's okay, where are you staying? I'll come and pick you up and drop you back. I'm going, oh my God, I love this country. So, sure enough, she arrives, she's got a second helmet, I get on the back of her bike, we go. So, that's kind of the example of some of the exchanges I've had using Facebook, certainly giving reviews of places they love it. When you do that, that certainly wins you favor. They seem to check it super regularly. So if it is a business that is still operating and it is still wanting patronage, you know, you will find that they will be fairly active on Facebook. So that's kind of my experience on that one. What about apps, Michelle, like, you know, looking at managing the travel that you've booked? So, you know, I'm talking about your airlines or your hotels or things like that. Do you kind of include that in your prep for your smartphone?

 Michelle Chang: I personally don't tend to get the airline apps for my travel in Southeast Asia. Occasionally I will for domestic travel more often. I've heard a lot of people use the app TripIt when they want to keep their itinerary organized and you can email confirmations to your TripIt address and it will populate the confirmation number and the times and the dates for you. So that can be really handy if you have a lot going. When we stay in Vietnam, we're staying for a long time, so we don't have a highly booked schedule. So I end up just using my own Google Calendar for any appointments or tours that we're scheduling. Okay.

Kerry Newsome: What do you use? So, I book a lot of different options but if I'm using like for instance an online travel agent like a booking.com or an Expedia or Something like that, I will often, I will have that app on my phone because not only does it allow me to search for other options if I want to change my plans because I want to keep it fluid, but it'll also have my current booking. So when I walk to the check-in counter inside the hotel, I can present my current booking there for them to refer to. And that seems to be coming a norm for people that are using various online travel agencies like that. But as you say, you've got to be kind of on the move and all the rest of it. But another funny story I want to add to that is that you can go to the hotel. And you can ask the hotel, is there a room available or, you know, what is the rate for the room or whatever. And say they've got the room and it's current, but then you can say, okay, oh, that's 120 US for the night or whatever, that seems quite high. I have actually stepped back into reception, got onto an app, say it's booking.com, say it's Expedia, you know, whatever the one commonly I'm using at the time. And I've looked at the room and most times out of 10, I will get a better rate going through that app. And sometimes the receptionist will even tell me to go to an app and I will get a better rate rather than going to direct. Now, There's a whole lot of stories around why that happens. And I won't go into that now to explain that from an industry point of view, but that's where the app can be extremely handy. And I have booked the app, gone back up to the reception counter and said, here's my booking. And they've gone, oh, great. You know, welcome Kerry Newsom, blah, blah, blah. Crazy, hey? But that is, that is how tech is taking over travel in such a dramatic way that it never did before. So, just to be aware of that, people, that, you know, depending on what you feel comfortable with and which online travel agencies that you use, if they have an app, I'd strongly urge you to set that up on your phone. Can we delve a little bit deeper and you can give us your feedback on, you know, operating a business and working remotely in Vietnam?

Michelle Chang: Sure. Well, there is a lot of free Wi-Fi these days throughout Vietnam in cafes, a lot of the businesses have upgraded their Wi-Fi speeds, and there's some really beautiful and fun places. I really enjoy the style and decor in Vietnamese cafes, so that's always a treat. The only thing that bothers me sometimes in those cafes is smoking, which has gotten better in indoor venues there. But a lot of times there's like an open air patio or outdoor seating where smoking is still permitted. So you can't guarantee that it won't be a part of your experience. There are also some great co-working spots, especially in the bigger cities, Hanoi, Ho Chi Minh City, Da Nang. Hoi An is a bit smaller, but it has a great little nomad community at Hub Hoi An. I know that you've spoken with Florian, the the owner there now, and it overlooks the rice fields. It's a really beautiful setting. We personally do tend to do a lot of our work from wherever we're staying, whether it's a homestay or an apartment rental that's furnished. We just double check with the owner about the Wi-Fi speeds before we book. We make sure that they have a desk or some kind of workspace. But these days, the Wi-Fi in Vietnam has been pretty good most of the time. It's actually better than a lot of places in Europe. I think they just are able to or have been upgrading their infrastructure, at least compared to when we started in 2015-2016. It was decent back then and the speeds have gotten even faster. So it really is a great remote work destination, in my opinion.

Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. And I think there is definitely a growing interest in the digital nomad space. And, you know, nomads can be all ages. So, if you're wanting to travel to Vietnam and you want to take your business with you, or you maybe want to extend your stay after your holiday and continue to work on, You can really feel confident to be able to do that. Michelle's right, you know, the speed of the internet is important. Maybe if I was to offer a level of caution, it would be around the security of free Wi-Fi. Maybe that's something to be mindful of in, you know, just transferring money or, you know, doing things like that, just to be a little bit careful on that note. And as Michelle and I were talking earlier that there is that two ways to do it. One, you can do it from, you know, your place of stay, the hotel or whatever doesn't seem to have any, you know, major limitations in my experience and usually pretty good. Or if you feel like you want to, you know, meet some people and become you know, a bit part of a community of travelers and that, you know, that hub Hoi An kind of set up or, you know, there's other ones like we work and that in Saigon now, I think. There's a lot more of that happening around the place. You've only just got to search that. But that is a great way to meet other travelers, get tips and hints on how to be more effective in those hubs and really be part of that community. So, there's definitely those two options. And if you do it in a cafe, they don't even feel like you can sit on a couple of cups of coffee for hours. And people do that. The smoking is interesting. That's, I guess, are they smoking or vaping, Michelle?

Michelle Chang: Well, maybe both, but definitely smoking.

Kerry Newsome: Yeah, that would put me off. But in the ones that I've been at so far, I've managed to avoid that, thankfully. But yeah, I've been able to set up and just stay there for ages and they're very friendly and they don't feel the need to push you on at all. summarizing, is there anything else that like, this is your thing, you know, intentional travelers, this is what you do in setting people up and training people up with tutorials to get smartphone ready, which I'll make sure everyone, I put the link to Michelle's website so you can access that. Is there anything I haven't asked you? Is anything we haven't covered that we should for everyone. Anything you can think of that you'd like to add just in wrapping up?

Michelle Chang: I would just add to remember that you don't need to be a computer whiz or an expert phone guru, but do invest in yourself a little bit on this topic because smartphone skills can really pay off on all of your future trips. It's going to help you be able to answer those unanticipated questions and deal with bumps in the road, which inevitably happen when you're traveling and especially when you're in an unfamiliar place. So it can really help you feel more confident, keep you safe. help you find hidden gems, make sure that you're not missing out on something better, just by having this next level of skill, just learning the next step. And a lot of times, you know, you might already be using Google Maps, you might already be using a messaging service, if not WhatsApp. And so you have that foundation, even if you don't feel tech savvy yet. And you're just going to be taking those skills to the next level. And that's going to make a huge difference for your travel.

Kerry Newsome: Absolutely. And if I just want to finish up is to make sure you have the right plugs. It is a two-prong setup for plugs. Sometimes the sockets can be a bit dodgy as in you put the plug in and it doesn't like sit or doesn't kind of grab properly. And that's because those sockets are sometimes a little bit old depending on the place you're staying. Sometimes just one will do it. I think it's about 220 volt it runs on. So sometimes some of the devices that you plug in don't actually power up as fast as they would in your own home country. So just to be aware of that. Last time I took not only a plug, but I then took a small cube set up which had about four sockets to it, so it meant I could put my phone, my laptop, my hair dryer, whatever else I But I wanted to use using just the one socket because a hotel doesn't have 100 sockets for you to use in the first place. So it depends how many devices you've got going. But just to be making sure that you do have the right plugs and there's plenty of websites, et cetera, that you can find that information.
Kerry Newsome : Thank you for coming on the show.

Michelle Chang: My pleasure.

 If you would like to know more about Michelle’s tutorials and online programs you can connect directly with her here - https://intentionaltravelers.com/

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